October 16, 2004
Interview with John Spencer
Tavis Smiley Show
PBS
Tavis: I’m pleased to welcome Emmy-winning actor John Spencer to this program. His portrayal of White House Chief of Staff Leo McGarry on “The West Wing” has earned him 4 Emmy nominations on one of the best shows on TV. This Sunday here in L.A. he will take part in annual AIDS Walk L.A. But first, here he is in a sneak preview from the season premiere of “The West Wing.”
President Bartlet: General Alexander went ahead with plans for these bombings?
Leo McGarry: At your request.
Bartlet: I said I’d consider it when the time was appropriate. I did not ask--
McGarry: He was trying to anticipate your eventual needs, sir...at my urging. Mr. President, please. Congress, the joint chief, the American public, your own staff, everyone disagrees with your assessment of this situation.
Tavis: You can’t talk to the president like that, man.
John Spencer: He takes my advice every once in a while. [Tavis laughs]
Tavis: Nice to meet you.
Spencer: Good to meet you.
Tavis: I’m glad to have you on the program.
Spencer: Thank you.
Tavis: You guys are starting season number 6, and you appeared not to be tired of this stuff. You still loving it?
Spencer: I’m having a good time. It’s very hard work, I’ll tell you. An hour drama is not for the tired. Ha ha. It’s a grueling schedule, but I’m blessed with such incredible material and have been right from the very get-go. Um, Aaron, who created the show--Aaron Sorkin--is maybe one of the greatest writers in the world. So to have him writing the dialogue and creating these really evocative characters and also to play some--to play--to be a part of this world. Although I’d never want to be a part of it in real life. I would not. I’d steer very clear of politics.
Tavis: You know, speaking of material, I think you’re absolutely right. You get great material to work with. No question about that. Here’s the silliest question perhaps you’ve ever been asked, but I’m just fascinated by how you--I just did a cameo on something the other day that’s airing on NBC in a few weeks, as a matter of fact.
Spencer: Cool. You want to tell me what it was?
Tavis: Well, I think it was a show called “American Dreams.“
Spencer: Great. It’s a great show.
Tavis: Sunday night, Novem--
Spencer: Tommy Verica, a friend of mine.
Tavis: Sunday night--since you set me up for this. We call this a shameless plug. Right here, Jonathan. Right here. Thank you very much. Sunday night, November 7th, I’m on “American Dreams” doing a cameo playing Thurgood Marshall.
Spencer: Cool.
Tavis: 50 years ago. It’s a period piece. Anyway, the point of all this is that I did this cameo the other day, and I had to walk and talk at the same time.
Spencer: Very hard.
Tavis: And I thought about you folk on “The West Wing” because you guys are always moving through the White House.
Spencer: Which we call--
Tavis: How do you do this?
Spencer: We call those walk and talks.
Tavis: How do you do that?
Spencer: Well, the pisser, if I may say that, about a walk and talk is they can’t cut into it. So it starts at the beginning, and if it goes for 3 pages, you can get to 2 pages and 3/4, and you can make one mistake on a line, and you gotta start all over again. So it’s kind of--I like it ‘cause it’s kind of like being in the theater. Once it starts, it doesn’t stop until it’s done.
Tavis: Right.
Spencer: You know, you don’t cut away. I put a lot of work into it. I have 2 wonderfully gifted assistants who drill me nightly. And it’s hard work because I’m putting in a day at work over there at the factory, and then I’m coming home and learning words for the next day.
Tavis: I could lie to you and tell you I didn’t make any mistakes. We did one take. The truth of the matter is they had to pull out some extra tape because I had to walk and talk and walk and talk and walk and talk till I got it right. But it’s hard work, man.
Spencer: Well, it comes a little easier with practice. Uh, but it is hard work. It’s--the trick is to make it look seamless. You know, to make it look easy.
Tavis: You guys have such great diversity on “The West Wing.” I know people on the show, other friends who’ve done cameos, guest appearances on the show. You got great diversity, and I hear that in season 6, you’re gonna get some more diversity on this program.
Spencer: Oh, we have Alan Alda coming on as a Republican senator who’s gonna announce for the White House. Um, we have Jimmy Smits, who plays a Democratic congressman from Texas, who maybe has his eye on the chair, too. Um, and we have all the regulars, the old regulars back, and we just--Kristin Chenoweth, who I’m a big fan of, Broadway actor, is coming on our show.
Tavis: This is probably not a fair question to ask you as a cast member, but what should happen at the end of President Bartlet’s administration?
Spencer: What should happen? I would hope we’d be able to--to elect another Democrat. I would hope that I could leave the wing in very confident and astute hands of maybe my deputy, Josh. Uh, I don’t know that I’d want a chief of staff anybody beside Bartlet. So I think when Bartlet goes, as do I. I think that’s my man in the White House. And I think after that, we all go back to the public sector.
Tavis: Yeah. When you mentioned earlier in our conversation--which I didn’t forget, I just filed it away till I could come back to this--when you mentioned earlier that you could not imagine in your own life being a part of the real world of politics--
Spencer: Too much responsibility.
Tavis: I was about to ask you, why do you feel that way?
Spencer: Too much responsibility. Also the art of compromise. You know, one thing I have noticed, and I’m a dyed-in-the-wool liberal. I use the “l” word as unfashionable as it is.
Tavis: Shame on you. Nobody does that these days.
Spencer: We have tried to disguise it with every semantic, twisted turn we can.
Tavis: Nobody does that these days.
Spencer: Let me tell ya. I’m proud to be a liberal. A liberal is somebody who takes care of their brothers. Uh, who believes that we who are better off should take care of those who are less better off. I don’t see that as false responsibility. I see that as what makes America great. In the sense of F.D.R. and those people. Anyway, um, I’ve noticed in politics that you don’t get from “A” to “B” in a direct line. You might have to go “C” and “F” and “B” and “D” and then you get to the other point. And that takes a great deal of finesse and compromise. And I’m a little stubborn for that and a little impatient. Also, I’ll tell ya, it’s a hard enough time taking care of myself, let alone being responsible for the bigger picture. I do believe in the responsibility of every individual to vote because that is our voice. That is our voice in the government, and we have that right. And I think it’s a right we should all exercise, no matter how you vote.
Tavis: I mean, you’ve met any number of presidents, real U.S. presidents, since doing this show. What do you think the impact, what is the legacy, the enduring legacy you think of this show going to be on the body politic because for the last 6 years, I mean, it’s Hollywood, but--
Spencer: It’s the alternate administration.
Tavis: Yeah.
Spencer: I think it will have an important impact on the history of television. I thank cable. I think cable has raised the bar. I think, you know, shows like “The Sopranos,” “Six Feet Under,” who have the advantage of dialogue, adult dialogue in situations have a big advantage, but they’ve brought the whole bar up, so network has to compete with intelligence and good writing. Uh, I would hope that, uh, that the journey has been an interesting one for people. I think if I wasn’t on “The West Wing,” I might watch it because it’s a side of politics we’ve never seen. It’s what happens when the people leave the podium. It’s what happens when the door closes if you open that door and you look behind the closed doors. And we’ve seen that at police stations and law offices and hospitals for years on television and in movies. But to explore it in a world of politics, I think, is very interesting to be a voyeur in the world of politics.
Tavis: How good have you guys been at not emulating--trying to find the right word here--but mirroring or certainly, uh, paralleling what happens in the real body politic?
Spencer: Well, I think that--I think our show has taken a journey. I think when we started, Aaron was very intent. I remember him saying to us at many a table read, when we get together and read the script, “Remember this is not an eat your vegetable show. It’s entertainment. We are an hour drama. We are meant to entertain.” Of course we had the backdrop of the Constitution. We had to play by the rules because we’re, you know, we’re a play. We’re an event about the American government. So we couldn’t make up our own rules. But some incredible things went down. I’ve been asked where is Kumar, you know? And, uh, Kumar is fictional. You know, that was a country--
Tavis: I was about to say, “Don’t ask me.” You got me on that one.
Spencer: And I think the real world has moved into our drama in a way that it’s almost had to. It would be very hard to ignore terrorism at that point. It’s become such a part and parcel of our everyday life, our everyday fears.
Tavis: I got about a minute and a half. You mentioned, um...some real issues here a moment ago in the body politic. You’re doing the AIDS Walk this Sunday.
Spencer: Thank you for bringing that up. It’s still a very important cause. You know, we tend to get casual about things with time. And, uh, when the epidemic started, it was on the front pages every day. And we’ve made incredible progress. But you look at the continent of Africa. You look at the world. It’s become a pandemic. It’s still a very important thing. A cure is out there, and I’ve lost a lot of people in my industry.
Tavis: We talked on this show the other night, right quick, about the fact, even though you’re a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, when Gwen Ifill from PBS asked the 2 vice presidential candidates Cheney and Edwards the other night about AIDS and people of color, they were both clueless. It was embarrassing.
Spencer: I know. And that the increase has happened in black women.
Tavis: And neither one of them was clued into it.
Spencer: They were clueless, and it was embarrassing. It was an embarrassing moment. It’s a pandemic now. It’s not--I think it was unfortunately easy to write off in the early days because people thought alternative lifestyles and needles users and--how dare people write those people off--but much easier. Now it’s mainstream. And it’s something that needs to be addressed.
Tavis: Well, I’m glad you’re out there addressing it. It’s an honor to meet you. You’re welcome back here as often as you want to come see us.
Spencer: Thank you. Thanks.
Tavis: John Spencer of “The West Wing.” My pleasure. Just a reminder, “The West Wing” kicks off its new season next Wednesday, October 20th. That’s our show for tonight. As always, you can catch me on the radio on NPR. I’ll see you back here next time on PBS. Until then, thanks for watching. Good night from Los Angeles and, as always, keep the faith.
Posted by Jo at October 16, 2004 07:55 AM